In article <c8029g0g88@enews2.newsguy.com>,
Walt Kienzle <wkienzle@iwic.net> wrote:
> Some engines based on older designs don't use belts or chains, but they
> usually only have two valves per cylinder (one intake and one exhaust)
> instead of the typical four valves per cylinder that modern (and usually
> more efficient), overhead cam design engines allow.

Bentley in the '20s made a 4 valve OHC engine with the cam driven by
eccentric connecting rods - rather like a steam railway engine.

--
*Even a blind pig stumbles across an acorn now and again *

Dave Plowman dave.sound@argonet.co.uk London SW 12
RIP Acorn

 

"dizzy" <dizzy@nospam.invalid> escribió en el mensaje
newsic5a05ndklncomdgrbd7h3ba5rq8ap053@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 10 May 2004 23:22:28 +0200, "JP Roberts" <1234@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> >I think it is precisely BMW that produce the most efficient petrol
engines
> >available, given similar power figures.
>
> Do they? 330i: 225HP, 20/28 with automatic. Honda Accord: 240HP,
> 21/30 with automatic.

The Accord engine you're talking about is only efficient past redline, and
its torque is ridiculous by comparison. The mileage figures you're talking
about are only good when you drive calm. If you "nail" the Honda, you'll get
not only way less torque and satisfaction but also worse mileage.

 

"C.R. Krieger" <warp2_shadow@yahoo.com> escribió en el mensaje
news:a8a578a8.0405130745.412b56c3@posting.google.c om...
> "JP Roberts" <1234@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:<c7tjo4$jjf$1@news.ya.com>...
> > "C.R. Krieger" <warp2_shadow@yahoo.com> escribió en el mensaje
> > news:a8a578a8.0405120803.38a3bf9f@posting.google.c om...
> > > "JP Roberts" <1234@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > >
> > > While the BMWs you *don't* see are the 'Xi AWD cars that beat you
> > > there ...
> >
> > If it's really slippery, and given the same driver and tyres and similar
> > engines, Quattro still beats your Xi.
>
> Uh ... yeah; whatever. BTW, I don't have an 'Xi. It's an '88 535is.
> RWD. LSD. If it's *really* slippery, it's a Jeep Grand Cherokee ...
> because the Audi won't start!

With the weight of so much experience on your back, it's plain to see you've
got behind the times in this aspect. The Jeep Grand Cherokee is a thing of
the past! Knowledgeable people talk Tuareg, Cayenne, Range Rover, and
Discovery, when efficiency is concerned - not that I am one of those
The Audi will start, but then again, so will your 535 if pulled by a Land
Rover Defender!

>
> > > And some of us know that twisty roads, autocrossing, and driving speed
> > > events on race tracks wears out the *front* tires a lot more than it
> > > does the rears - unless your idea of 'spirited driving' includes lots
> > > of burnouts. It's worst on FWDs.
> >
> > And some other ones of us know that if you go drifting on an M3, which
is my
> > point, and what really good drivers and real BMWs are best at, my
argument
> > still holds perfectly true.
>
> *Drifting*? WTF are you talking about? Either it's that 'Rice
> Rocket' trend from Japan (for which a response is beneath my dignity)
> or the last book you read on performance driving was written a decade
> before Mario Andretti won a world championship. I don't know if I
> qualify for your definition of a "really good driver", but I *do*
> instruct for BMW and Audi club driving schools. You don't 'drift' an
> M3! If you do, you're taking your life in your hands because the
> recovery runs a surprisingly high probability of snap rolling the car!
> I've been directly involved in racing and speed events since about
> 1988 and my experience says that your argument is diametrically
> opposed to fact.

I will never doubt how good a driver you may be, because I live miles apart
from where you are and much as I'd like to meet you, this is quite unlikely.
Oh, well, I seem to remember you call this "tailback trailing whatnot", only
I've seen people who do it for a very long time and even on the wet! I
remember this as something really impressive.

>
> > > Actually, the end of *my* BMW life will have included driving Audi
> > > Quattros (including turbos) for 14 years, lots of fun FWDs *and* lots
> > > of RWD and a few AWD BMWs - not to mention our current Jaguar X-Type
> > > AWD (a 3.0 5-speed Sport, so you can forget trotting out your tired
> > > old 'but they're slow and have bad autoboxes' line). Of the lot, I
> > > found the Audis (at least all of them after the first 4000/90Q) to be
> > > the most boring. Even my Fiat 128 was more entertaining - when it
> > > ran. ;^)
> >
> > Quite possibly true, but Audis may still probably be the safest of all
of
> > those.
>
> A stunning non sequitur. Even if it weren't a hopelessly desperate
> attempt to change the subject, *who the hell cares*? Driving *any*
> car is inherently unsafe! My BMW doesn't have *any airbags* - and I
> *like it* that way! So why don't you just stay home while those of
> who know what it is to *enjoy* driving (something *not* from
> Ingolstadt or Neckarsulm or stuffed with more high explosives than a
> fireworks display) do so? Here's something for you to chew on: BMW
> 507.

Why change the subject? I used to drive an Alfa 75 Quadrifoglio V6 about and
I must admit I've never had so much fun, not either when I tried a 325i.
Still, I wouldn't replace my Audi with any BMW that was not an M3 (a pure
joy) or a 330xd (one of the best all-rounders). My enjoyment is better
fulfilled when I see many aggressive BMW drivers can't catch up on a really
winding mountain pass even though they have bigger engines. Yeah, maybe the
feeling is not the same as that in the BMW behind me, but guess who's got
the biggest smile on their face?

> --
> C.R. Krieger
> Life's too short to drive boring cars.

 

On Wed, 12 May 2004 22:44:35 +0100, "Dori A Schmetterling"
<ng@nospam.co.uk> wrote:

>Top 10 sellers in UK in first quarter 04:-
>
>43,115 Ford Focus
>33,355 Vauxhall Corsa
>29,479 Peugeot 206
>27,217 Ford Fiesta
>23,496 Vauxhall Astra
>22,283 Renault Megane
>21,688 ditto Clio
>19,067 Ford Mondeo
>18,366 VW Golf
>17,830 Peugeot 307
>
I'll dig out my Autocar if my nephews haven't swiped it, but they
recently did an article on the most popular cars in the UK once you
remove fleet sales, and I think BMW moved up quite a bit on the list.
Where I work, you could put up a sign on the parking garage as a
German car dealership and no one would bat an eye: Bimmers, Mercs, and
Porsches galore. I'm shopping for a Passat just to stand out.
Emanuel
--
1983 Porsche 911
1983 Porsche 944

 

On Tue, 11 May 2004 22:02:41 GMT, "Matt O'Toole" <matt@deltanet.com>
wrote:
> Geez, how did people get around before Quattros
>and Xi-s?

They bought snow tires, which shockingly few people do anymore;
they assume all-weather tires are good enough, no matter what, then
blame the car when it's the tires not gripping that's the problem.
I'm guilty of not buying snow tires in decades, but I'm in downtown
Chicago and things are plowed pretty quickly here so I can get away
with it. Also my winter beater is the 944 - easy to push out when it
gets stuck.
Emanuel
--
1983 Porsche 911
1983 Porsche 944

 

"JP Roberts" <1234@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c80lmp$48f$2@news.ya.com...

> With the weight of so much experience on your back, it's plain to see
you've
> got behind the times in this aspect. The Jeep Grand Cherokee is a thing of
> the past! Knowledgeable people talk Tuareg, Cayenne, Range Rover, and
> Discovery, when efficiency is concerned - not that I am one of those
> The Audi will start, but then again, so will your 535 if pulled by a Land
> Rover Defender!

Let me jump in here real quick. I happen to be a 4x4 enthusiast and enjoy a
great amount of offroading out here in the beautiful West. In our club's
annual extravaganza's we always hire a tri-roller to the site and always
have SUV's and 4x4's of various models, makes and levels of customization
compete. And when we go out on trails we have members of every marquee
persuasion.

*****the only out-of-box AWD/4x4 cars, SUV's or trucks that ever beat the
tri-roller (three vehicle wheels on rollers and one wheel on solid
substrate, all which changes from wheel to wheel as the vehicle tries to
ascend over the ramp) are the Jeep Grand Cherokee with Quadra-Drive, not
Quadra-Trac, and the BMW "x" models in either 3 series or X5/X3 form*****

Nothing else has ever made it over the ramp......nothing, and we have seen
every model and make on the road in the USA. Quattro, on various Audis, all
the LR vehicles, Land Cruiser, 4Matic, Suburu, 4-Motion, Cayenne,
Toureg...the list goes on. The tri-roller is the perfect test of which
system offers torque to the needed point(s) at the four corners of the
vehicle.

The first measure of capability is how the vehicle tries to power the
tractioned wheel(s), the next is what rubber it is fitted with. Outside of
that, and before issues like articulation and approach/departure/breakover
angles, throttle tip-in, gear ratios etc., nothing else matters yet. On
slippery conditions, particularly uphill conditions, how the power is
applied is the most important factor (assuming proper rubber).

I like the Rangies, and they are better than stock Jeeps in certain areas,
but they don't do well in this type of condition. Particularly given their
rather high weights. And the Cayenne and Toureg are pretty fair awd units,
but also pretty much hype in real difficult conditions. Don't even think
that Quattro is the equal of any of those mentioned. Car magazines don't
have a clue when it comes to real 4WD/AWD functionality.

 

On Thu, 13 May 2004 16:22:12 -0600, "Jess Englewood"
<pleasen@spam.com> wrote:

> Car magazines don't
>have a clue when it comes to real 4WD/AWD functionality.

Your test is a valid test of whatever it's designed to test.
Perhaps as a discussion of uphill driving with very slippery
or loose surfaces it's valid. As a test of street driving, I
can't see that it matters much.

 

I have always contemplated the Land Rover Defender as the most efficacious
off-road beast and I doubt it very much it can't make it up your
three-roller, if anything else can. Then again, if you'd elaborate on why
Quadra Drive and the X could possibly be better than the rest of those you
mention, I might get to be enlightened In the meantime, I have much more
than a fair amount of reasonable doubt that your test is not biased.

In our country roads here in Europe, it is usually Cherokees that get stuck
first on difficult terrain, and I have yet to see the Porsches and Tuaregs
perform, but I can tell you that just about any Land Rover - except for the
Freelander, beats the whole legion of Cherokees hands down.

JP Roberts


"Jess Englewood" <pleasen@spam.com> escribió en el mensaje
newsySoc.54$ec6.54261@news.uswest.net...
>
> "JP Roberts" <1234@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:c80lmp$48f$2@news.ya.com...
>
> > With the weight of so much experience on your back, it's plain to see
> you've
> > got behind the times in this aspect. The Jeep Grand Cherokee is a thing
of
> > the past! Knowledgeable people talk Tuareg, Cayenne, Range Rover, and
> > Discovery, when efficiency is concerned - not that I am one of those
> > The Audi will start, but then again, so will your 535 if pulled by a
Land
> > Rover Defender!
>
> Let me jump in here real quick. I happen to be a 4x4 enthusiast and enjoy
a
> great amount of offroading out here in the beautiful West. In our club's
> annual extravaganza's we always hire a tri-roller to the site and always
> have SUV's and 4x4's of various models, makes and levels of customization
> compete. And when we go out on trails we have members of every marquee
> persuasion.
>
> *****the only out-of-box AWD/4x4 cars, SUV's or trucks that ever beat the
> tri-roller (three vehicle wheels on rollers and one wheel on solid
> substrate, all which changes from wheel to wheel as the vehicle tries to
> ascend over the ramp) are the Jeep Grand Cherokee with Quadra-Drive, not
> Quadra-Trac, and the BMW "x" models in either 3 series or X5/X3 form*****
>
> Nothing else has ever made it over the ramp......nothing, and we have seen
> every model and make on the road in the USA. Quattro, on various Audis,
all
> the LR vehicles, Land Cruiser, 4Matic, Suburu, 4-Motion, Cayenne,
> Toureg...the list goes on. The tri-roller is the perfect test of which
> system offers torque to the needed point(s) at the four corners of the
> vehicle.
>
> The first measure of capability is how the vehicle tries to power the
> tractioned wheel(s), the next is what rubber it is fitted with. Outside of
> that, and before issues like articulation and approach/departure/breakover
> angles, throttle tip-in, gear ratios etc., nothing else matters yet. On
> slippery conditions, particularly uphill conditions, how the power is
> applied is the most important factor (assuming proper rubber).
>
> I like the Rangies, and they are better than stock Jeeps in certain areas,
> but they don't do well in this type of condition. Particularly given their
> rather high weights. And the Cayenne and Toureg are pretty fair awd units,
> but also pretty much hype in real difficult conditions. Don't even think
> that Quattro is the equal of any of those mentioned. Car magazines don't
> have a clue when it comes to real 4WD/AWD functionality.
>
>
>
>

 

"C.R. Krieger" <warp2_shadow@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:a8a578a8.0405130745.412b56c3@posting.google.c om...
> A stunning non sequitur. Even if it weren't a hopelessly desperate
> attempt to change the subject, *who the hell cares*? Driving *any*
> car is inherently unsafe! My BMW doesn't have *any airbags* - and I
> *like it* that way! So why don't you just stay home while those of
> who know what it is to *enjoy* driving (something *not* from
> Ingolstadt or Neckarsulm or stuffed with more high explosives than a
> fireworks display) do so? Here's something for you to chew on: BMW

CRK can always be trusted to come up with something like that... I have no
airbags either and I like it that way too...

So does my daughter who can ride in the front in *my* car but not any other
one that we or various other nearby family members have owned in the last 7
years.

-Russ.

 

"-Bob-" <uctraingNOSPAM@ultranet.com> wrote in message
news:1t38a0tljltju8vfh43f4hp6jnpnaoour1@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 13 May 2004 16:22:12 -0600, "Jess Englewood"
> <pleasen@spam.com> wrote:
>
> > Car magazines don't
> >have a clue when it comes to real 4WD/AWD functionality.
>
> Your test is a valid test of whatever it's designed to test.
> Perhaps as a discussion of uphill driving with very slippery
> or loose surfaces it's valid. As a test of street driving, I
> can't see that it matters much.

Oh, I agree, I was speaking only to the specific statement I jumped in on.
There's no doubt in my mind a Toureg or Cayenne drives better on the street
than a JGC :^)