Peter Bell wrote:
> In message <1146712838.262456.161640@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups .com>
> "winston" <winstoncole@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > If your clutch has simply worn out after 38K that's surely odd...but
> > hey, maybe you're riding the clutch and you sent it to an early
> > grave...obviously nobody here can say one way or the other.
>
> My guess is that the clutch is being abused. The original post talked
> about changing gear slowly - now I guess that this doesn't mean moving
> the gear stick slowly. More likely, the driver is keeping the engine
> revs high and letting the clutch engage slowly, with lots of slip -
> whilst being kind to the rest of the transmission, this will result in
> excessive wear of the clutch plate, particularly in the town traffic he
> describes.

If we're just counting up votes, I gotta go with Bell. I've never had
a clutch in a car *I* drive regularly go out with under 100K on it.
Audis have gone well over 200K for me. That said, I do not 'baby'
them, either. I am a BMW & Audi club driving instructor, so my cars do
get 'tracked' regularly, but that's not abusing the clutch (unless you
mistakenly think, as someone here obviously does, that this consists
solely of drag racing). I've also autocrossed for some 18 years using
4000-rpm 'drop clutch' starts in Audis and this hasn't noticeably
affected my clutch wear. I drive 'briskly' on the street, but my
shifts don't wear the clutch quickly.

It's the regular day-to-day shifting pattern you use that will wear out
your clutch prematurely (barring a very rare defect of some kind, which
you'll only be able to find after you take it apart). The best shifts
are apparently (I'm not bragging, but depending on the results I have.)
the way I drive: quick engagement of first to get rolling, rev-matching
both up- and downshifting, and spending as little time as possible in
the midpoint of pedal travel when shifting. I don't generally 'speed
shift'; I take my time moving the shift lever, but during that time,
the clutch pedal is *on the floor* (none of this ridiculous clutch
spacer nonsense to make my shifts infinitesimally 'faster') and then
quickly released.

It's when you're depressing or releasing the clutch that it slips and
wears. It's also when your shifts aren't smooth (in terms of rev
matching) that it wears. I hope you find some anomalous clutch malady
like a leaking seal or badly made materials; but I doubt you will. If
you end up having to pay for this job, it should be more than reason to
go on a campaign against shoddy Audi service. It should be your
wake-up call to change your driving habits somehow.
--
C.R. Krieger
(Been there; done that)

 

Peter Bell wrote:
> In message <1146712838.262456.161640@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups .com>
> "winston" <winstoncole@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > If your clutch has simply worn out after 38K that's surely odd...but
> > hey, maybe you're riding the clutch and you sent it to an early
> > grave...obviously nobody here can say one way or the other.
>
> My guess is that the clutch is being abused. The original post talked
> about changing gear slowly - now I guess that this doesn't mean moving
> the gear stick slowly. More likely, the driver is keeping the engine
> revs high and letting the clutch engage slowly, with lots of slip -
> whilst being kind to the rest of the transmission, this will result in
> excessive wear of the clutch plate, particularly in the town traffic he
> describes.

If we're just counting up votes, I gotta go with Bell. I've never had
a clutch in a car *I* drive regularly go out with under 100K on it.
Audis have gone well over 200K for me. That said, I do not 'baby'
them, either. I am a BMW & Audi club driving instructor, so my cars do
get 'tracked' regularly, but that's not abusing the clutch (unless you
mistakenly think, as someone here obviously does, that this consists
solely of drag racing). I've also autocrossed for some 18 years using
4000-rpm 'drop clutch' starts in Audis and this hasn't noticeably
affected my clutch wear. I drive 'briskly' on the street, but my
shifts don't wear the clutch quickly.

It's the regular day-to-day shifting pattern you use that will wear out
your clutch prematurely (barring a very rare defect of some kind, which
you'll only be able to find after you take it apart). The best shifts
are apparently (I'm not bragging, but depending on the results I have.)
the way I drive: quick engagement of first to get rolling, rev-matching
both up- and downshifting, and spending as little time as possible in
the midpoint of pedal travel when shifting. I don't generally 'speed
shift'; I take my time moving the shift lever, but during that time,
the clutch pedal is *on the floor* (none of this ridiculous clutch
spacer nonsense to make my shifts infinitesimally 'faster') and then
quickly released.

It's when you're depressing or releasing the clutch that it slips and
wears. It's also when your shifts aren't smooth (in terms of rev
matching) that it wears. I hope you find some anomalous clutch malady
like a leaking seal or badly made materials; but I doubt you will. If
you end up having to pay for this job, it should be more than reason to
go on a campaign against shoddy Audi service. It should be your
wake-up call to change your driving habits somehow.
--
C.R. Krieger
(Been there; done that)

 

Peter Bell wrote:
> In message <1146712838.262456.161640@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups .com>
> "winston" <winstoncole@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > If your clutch has simply worn out after 38K that's surely odd...but
> > hey, maybe you're riding the clutch and you sent it to an early
> > grave...obviously nobody here can say one way or the other.
>
> My guess is that the clutch is being abused. The original post talked
> about changing gear slowly - now I guess that this doesn't mean moving
> the gear stick slowly. More likely, the driver is keeping the engine
> revs high and letting the clutch engage slowly, with lots of slip -
> whilst being kind to the rest of the transmission, this will result in
> excessive wear of the clutch plate, particularly in the town traffic he
> describes.

If we're just counting up votes, I gotta go with Bell. I've never had
a clutch in a car *I* drive regularly go out with under 100K on it.
Audis have gone well over 200K for me. That said, I do not 'baby'
them, either. I am a BMW & Audi club driving instructor, so my cars do
get 'tracked' regularly, but that's not abusing the clutch (unless you
mistakenly think, as someone here obviously does, that this consists
solely of drag racing). I've also autocrossed for some 18 years using
4000-rpm 'drop clutch' starts in Audis and this hasn't noticeably
affected my clutch wear. I drive 'briskly' on the street, but my
shifts don't wear the clutch quickly.

It's the regular day-to-day shifting pattern you use that will wear out
your clutch prematurely (barring a very rare defect of some kind, which
you'll only be able to find after you take it apart). The best shifts
are apparently (I'm not bragging, but depending on the results I have.)
the way I drive: quick engagement of first to get rolling, rev-matching
both up- and downshifting, and spending as little time as possible in
the midpoint of pedal travel when shifting. I don't generally 'speed
shift'; I take my time moving the shift lever, but during that time,
the clutch pedal is *on the floor* (none of this ridiculous clutch
spacer nonsense to make my shifts infinitesimally 'faster') and then
quickly released.

It's when you're depressing or releasing the clutch that it slips and
wears. It's also when your shifts aren't smooth (in terms of rev
matching) that it wears. I hope you find some anomalous clutch malady
like a leaking seal or badly made materials; but I doubt you will. If
you end up having to pay for this job, it should be more than reason to
go on a campaign against shoddy Audi service. It should be your
wake-up call to change your driving habits somehow.
--
C.R. Krieger
(Been there; done that)

 

Peter Bell wrote:
> In message <1146712838.262456.161640@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups .com>
> "winston" <winstoncole@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > If your clutch has simply worn out after 38K that's surely odd...but
> > hey, maybe you're riding the clutch and you sent it to an early
> > grave...obviously nobody here can say one way or the other.
>
> My guess is that the clutch is being abused. The original post talked
> about changing gear slowly - now I guess that this doesn't mean moving
> the gear stick slowly. More likely, the driver is keeping the engine
> revs high and letting the clutch engage slowly, with lots of slip -
> whilst being kind to the rest of the transmission, this will result in
> excessive wear of the clutch plate, particularly in the town traffic he
> describes.

If we're just counting up votes, I gotta go with Bell. I've never had
a clutch in a car *I* drive regularly go out with under 100K on it.
Audis have gone well over 200K for me. That said, I do not 'baby'
them, either. I am a BMW & Audi club driving instructor, so my cars do
get 'tracked' regularly, but that's not abusing the clutch (unless you
mistakenly think, as someone here obviously does, that this consists
solely of drag racing). I've also autocrossed for some 18 years using
4000-rpm 'drop clutch' starts in Audis and this hasn't noticeably
affected my clutch wear. I drive 'briskly' on the street, but my
shifts don't wear the clutch quickly.

It's the regular day-to-day shifting pattern you use that will wear out
your clutch prematurely (barring a very rare defect of some kind, which
you'll only be able to find after you take it apart). The best shifts
are apparently (I'm not bragging, but depending on the results I have.)
the way I drive: quick engagement of first to get rolling, rev-matching
both up- and downshifting, and spending as little time as possible in
the midpoint of pedal travel when shifting. I don't generally 'speed
shift'; I take my time moving the shift lever, but during that time,
the clutch pedal is *on the floor* (none of this ridiculous clutch
spacer nonsense to make my shifts infinitesimally 'faster') and then
quickly released.

It's when you're depressing or releasing the clutch that it slips and
wears. It's also when your shifts aren't smooth (in terms of rev
matching) that it wears. I hope you find some anomalous clutch malady
like a leaking seal or badly made materials; but I doubt you will. If
you end up having to pay for this job, it should be more than reason to
go on a campaign against shoddy Audi service. It should be your
wake-up call to change your driving habits somehow.
--
C.R. Krieger
(Been there; done that)

 

Peter Bell wrote:
> In message <1146712838.262456.161640@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups .com>
> "winston" <winstoncole@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > If your clutch has simply worn out after 38K that's surely odd...but
> > hey, maybe you're riding the clutch and you sent it to an early
> > grave...obviously nobody here can say one way or the other.
>
> My guess is that the clutch is being abused. The original post talked
> about changing gear slowly - now I guess that this doesn't mean moving
> the gear stick slowly. More likely, the driver is keeping the engine
> revs high and letting the clutch engage slowly, with lots of slip -
> whilst being kind to the rest of the transmission, this will result in
> excessive wear of the clutch plate, particularly in the town traffic he
> describes.

If we're just counting up votes, I gotta go with Bell. I've never had
a clutch in a car *I* drive regularly go out with under 100K on it.
Audis have gone well over 200K for me. That said, I do not 'baby'
them, either. I am a BMW & Audi club driving instructor, so my cars do
get 'tracked' regularly, but that's not abusing the clutch (unless you
mistakenly think, as someone here obviously does, that this consists
solely of drag racing). I've also autocrossed for some 18 years using
4000-rpm 'drop clutch' starts in Audis and this hasn't noticeably
affected my clutch wear. I drive 'briskly' on the street, but my
shifts don't wear the clutch quickly.

It's the regular day-to-day shifting pattern you use that will wear out
your clutch prematurely (barring a very rare defect of some kind, which
you'll only be able to find after you take it apart). The best shifts
are apparently (I'm not bragging, but depending on the results I have.)
the way I drive: quick engagement of first to get rolling, rev-matching
both up- and downshifting, and spending as little time as possible in
the midpoint of pedal travel when shifting. I don't generally 'speed
shift'; I take my time moving the shift lever, but during that time,
the clutch pedal is *on the floor* (none of this ridiculous clutch
spacer nonsense to make my shifts infinitesimally 'faster') and then
quickly released.

It's when you're depressing or releasing the clutch that it slips and
wears. It's also when your shifts aren't smooth (in terms of rev
matching) that it wears. I hope you find some anomalous clutch malady
like a leaking seal or badly made materials; but I doubt you will. If
you end up having to pay for this job, it should be more than reason to
go on a campaign against shoddy Audi service. It should be your
wake-up call to change your driving habits somehow.
--
C.R. Krieger
(Been there; done that)

 

John F. Carr wrote:
>
>
> I was falsely accused of abusing my 2001 S4 when the transmission
> broke. A few years later a different dealer tried to turn a $1000
> out-of-warranty clutch problem into $3,000 of repair work. My
> experience is common.

Actually, it isn't. Both the tranny and the clutch in those cars are
pretty robust. I'll grant that maybe the broken tranny was a
manufacturing problem, and that the clutch problem was the result of a
half-assed repair.

But I think you'll find *most* manual-TX Audi owners to be very
satisfied with the length of service of their tranny/clutch.

Where is the data on faulty manual trannies in Audis?

> I will not be buying another Audi.

It's probably better than way. The stealership network does suck. But
the parts supply and independent shops do a better job, faster and
cheaper, for those of us who can stay away from the stealerships.

IIRC, BMW balked at some engine replacements (for M3s) that died from
oil problems. Audi isn't the only maker who weasels on warranty work.
They all do it, if they can.

But if you can get out of your Audi, and get into a nice Honda, I'm
sure you won't have to worry about any sorts of issues like that.
Right?

E.P.

 

John F. Carr wrote:
>
>
> I was falsely accused of abusing my 2001 S4 when the transmission
> broke. A few years later a different dealer tried to turn a $1000
> out-of-warranty clutch problem into $3,000 of repair work. My
> experience is common.

Actually, it isn't. Both the tranny and the clutch in those cars are
pretty robust. I'll grant that maybe the broken tranny was a
manufacturing problem, and that the clutch problem was the result of a
half-assed repair.

But I think you'll find *most* manual-TX Audi owners to be very
satisfied with the length of service of their tranny/clutch.

Where is the data on faulty manual trannies in Audis?

> I will not be buying another Audi.

It's probably better than way. The stealership network does suck. But
the parts supply and independent shops do a better job, faster and
cheaper, for those of us who can stay away from the stealerships.

IIRC, BMW balked at some engine replacements (for M3s) that died from
oil problems. Audi isn't the only maker who weasels on warranty work.
They all do it, if they can.

But if you can get out of your Audi, and get into a nice Honda, I'm
sure you won't have to worry about any sorts of issues like that.
Right?

E.P.

 

John F. Carr wrote:
>
>
> I was falsely accused of abusing my 2001 S4 when the transmission
> broke. A few years later a different dealer tried to turn a $1000
> out-of-warranty clutch problem into $3,000 of repair work. My
> experience is common.

Actually, it isn't. Both the tranny and the clutch in those cars are
pretty robust. I'll grant that maybe the broken tranny was a
manufacturing problem, and that the clutch problem was the result of a
half-assed repair.

But I think you'll find *most* manual-TX Audi owners to be very
satisfied with the length of service of their tranny/clutch.

Where is the data on faulty manual trannies in Audis?

> I will not be buying another Audi.

It's probably better than way. The stealership network does suck. But
the parts supply and independent shops do a better job, faster and
cheaper, for those of us who can stay away from the stealerships.

IIRC, BMW balked at some engine replacements (for M3s) that died from
oil problems. Audi isn't the only maker who weasels on warranty work.
They all do it, if they can.

But if you can get out of your Audi, and get into a nice Honda, I'm
sure you won't have to worry about any sorts of issues like that.
Right?

E.P.

 

<brnelson55@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1146623693.544587.106700@u72g2000cwu.googlegr oups.com...
> I currently have 38,000 miles on my 03 A4 Quattro and noticed that my
> clutch is slipping when I change gears. Basically my RPMs are way too
> high for my acceleration and speed when I shift into gear. I've also
> noticed that it seems to stick a little when I shift into 2nd gear.
> The realease point is extremely high as well. If the mechanic noticed
> that the release point seemed different.
>
> The dealership says that if the wear is due to abuse then I will have
> to pay a minimum of $500 just for them to look at the clutch and
> $2300!!! to replace it. My car is under warranty and I think this is
> bullsh$t. I do not drop my clutch at rpms, constantly keep it in
> engaged, nor do I race it all the time. I live in Atlanta with
> terrible traffic and have to shift a lot in bumper to bumper traffic
> and I shift slowly for smooth shifts but am wondering if that is
> actually worse for the clutch than quick jerky shifts since the clutch
> is engaged longer. They also tried to tell me that because I have 19"
> RS6 wheels that the circumfrence and weight of the new wheel is similar
> to "towing a boat" which is more stressful on the clutch. Am i wrong or
> is the diameter the same since the profile of the tire is smaller to
> compensate for the bigger wheel. Also, what added weight? I know he
> can't possibly mean actual lbs added to the car.
>
> Finally they said abuse can be identified by rippped rivets, excessive
> hot spots, and uneven wear on the clutch. Can anyone verify that this
> can identify abuse?? Is there a difference in how the clutch looks
> based on whether I'm racing the car or shifting much more than normal
> due to traffic conditions? Can anyone give me any information to form
> a solid argument with them? I am not a mechanic but I refuse to be
> taken advantage of by these dealerships any longer
>

Unfortunately, if the clutch has been slipping enough to be noticable, there
may already have been overheating that could produce "evidence" they will
likely find sufficient to deny a warranty claim. Still, in order to have a
non-defective clutch wear out at 38,000 miles, you have to be pretty
abusive. One of the main culprits is "riding" the clutch. It's really
impossible for anyone here to judge your driving habits and determine that
they would cause a clutch to wear out at 38,000 miles. Your mention of other
symptoms ("also noticed that it seems to stick a little when I shift into
2nd gear") suggests the possibility of a failed component not letting the
clutch engage properly. That would be very useful to demonstrate to the
service manager even if you have to go for a drive with him. I had a clutch
release bearing on my A4 fail at 22,000 miles (squealing sound) and it was
replaced under warranty so I certainly wouldn't rule out a defective part
being involved. The dealer comment about your wheels is just total BS and
suggests to me that they are sleazy enough that I'd take it to another
dealer if possible. In any event, drive gently until you take it in to avoid
more heat damage to the clutch components.

 

<brnelson55@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1146623693.544587.106700@u72g2000cwu.googlegr oups.com...
> I currently have 38,000 miles on my 03 A4 Quattro and noticed that my
> clutch is slipping when I change gears. Basically my RPMs are way too
> high for my acceleration and speed when I shift into gear. I've also
> noticed that it seems to stick a little when I shift into 2nd gear.
> The realease point is extremely high as well. If the mechanic noticed
> that the release point seemed different.
>
> The dealership says that if the wear is due to abuse then I will have
> to pay a minimum of $500 just for them to look at the clutch and
> $2300!!! to replace it. My car is under warranty and I think this is
> bullsh$t. I do not drop my clutch at rpms, constantly keep it in
> engaged, nor do I race it all the time. I live in Atlanta with
> terrible traffic and have to shift a lot in bumper to bumper traffic
> and I shift slowly for smooth shifts but am wondering if that is
> actually worse for the clutch than quick jerky shifts since the clutch
> is engaged longer. They also tried to tell me that because I have 19"
> RS6 wheels that the circumfrence and weight of the new wheel is similar
> to "towing a boat" which is more stressful on the clutch. Am i wrong or
> is the diameter the same since the profile of the tire is smaller to
> compensate for the bigger wheel. Also, what added weight? I know he
> can't possibly mean actual lbs added to the car.
>
> Finally they said abuse can be identified by rippped rivets, excessive
> hot spots, and uneven wear on the clutch. Can anyone verify that this
> can identify abuse?? Is there a difference in how the clutch looks
> based on whether I'm racing the car or shifting much more than normal
> due to traffic conditions? Can anyone give me any information to form
> a solid argument with them? I am not a mechanic but I refuse to be
> taken advantage of by these dealerships any longer
>

Unfortunately, if the clutch has been slipping enough to be noticable, there
may already have been overheating that could produce "evidence" they will
likely find sufficient to deny a warranty claim. Still, in order to have a
non-defective clutch wear out at 38,000 miles, you have to be pretty
abusive. One of the main culprits is "riding" the clutch. It's really
impossible for anyone here to judge your driving habits and determine that
they would cause a clutch to wear out at 38,000 miles. Your mention of other
symptoms ("also noticed that it seems to stick a little when I shift into
2nd gear") suggests the possibility of a failed component not letting the
clutch engage properly. That would be very useful to demonstrate to the
service manager even if you have to go for a drive with him. I had a clutch
release bearing on my A4 fail at 22,000 miles (squealing sound) and it was
replaced under warranty so I certainly wouldn't rule out a defective part
being involved. The dealer comment about your wheels is just total BS and
suggests to me that they are sleazy enough that I'd take it to another
dealer if possible. In any event, drive gently until you take it in to avoid
more heat damage to the clutch components.